Thursday, July 15, 2010

Guild loyalty

I was chatting on vent with Jess, Rap, and Fonzy last night and I shared that I am in the early stages of switching consulting firms. I really like what I do on an every day basis, but I would just be doing it for another healthcare consulting firm. Why? Well, while I have some minor concerns about the future of my practice and the ability of the senior partners to sell large projects, the bulk of the reason is that I know that I could be making more money elsewhere.

It's interesting, or kind of sad depending on how you look at it, that you make the biggest jumps in salary by switching firms. Loyalty and sticking to one place won't bring you the same level of salary increases. And my guess is that women are more loyal to employers than men. I wonder if this, along with womens reluctance to negotiate and ask for things, is a part of why in this day and age female salaries still lag behind men.

So I have a call setup to speak with a former colleague who is at another firm. So this is just the very early stages of exploring other opportunities, and you know what? I already feel kind of bad. In all honestly I probably should and could have made this switch sooner, but I do think loyalty had something to do with it. I know that I have every right to be looking at other opportunities, but there is a part of me that feels bad and disloyal to my current firm.

While I was talking about it last night, I mentioned how I had some thoughts around this topic as it relates to WoW. Fonzy was like, "Of course you do, because that's what you do". Hahaha. Yes Fonzy, that is what I do.

Anyways, so my jumbled thoughts are this. I wonder given how women think about their jobs carries over to the relationship that women have with their guilds in game? Now I'm not saying that female players never leave guilds. Because yes, they do. But, when its clear a guild isn't working? Who jumps ship first? Is it more likely that the men leave guilds earlier? And are men more likely to switch guilds out of the blue simply to join a more progressed guild?

And when women do leave guilds, or consider doing so, do they have a harder time with it? Do they feel more guilty or disloyal? Or maybe it isn't that women are more loyal, but just that we just agonize over things like this more?

Myself, I haven't been in a position in game where I was in a guild that wasn't succeeding and folks were making decisions to leave for other guilds. But those of you that have, what do you think? Are women more loyal to guilds?


  1. Curious fer ta see what the responses are. Meself, I's tended fer ta be more loyal than hindsight sez was good fer me, both with guilds, careers, and RL relationships. Mebbe is 'cause I's so virile I don't fear me femininine side....

  2. I honestly don't see it as a male/female thing. Some people just value loyalty more than others. And I am not saying that people who jump guilds do NOT value loyalty... it is a matter of degree.

    I believe there is a psychological reason for it - desire for prediciability and belonging and a few other things. But I really do not think it is a gender thing, just a personality thing

  3. Interesting. I think I am loyal to a guild until the point where it stops meaning something to me. I'd never jump ship to join something like a progression guild for instance. Most of the reasons I've left guilds in the past have been for personality reasons - ie I didn't want to be in a guild that had a manipulative bitch in a key officer position, for example. I think I am the same with jobs, as long as I enjoy something, I don't feel the need to push further, but the minute I start to feel used, or unappreciated, (or bored) I will move on.
    It's interesting that you are tying this into gender, and in a lot of cases, I suspect you might be right.

  4. Although, it could also be a starsign thing :P

  5. My boys and I have been lucky enough to be in a stable guild for over a year and a half. Just because of my boys I think loyalty to my guild is higher. In other words any change made would affect not just me but them too. Many of us naturally seek stability. I think people often stick with jobs for the same reason, stability. I don't want to make an overgeneralization (or start a flame war) but women and men are often wired differently. I think women seek more stability in life than men and as such are less likely to make large changes. UNTIL, the money in a new job offers more stability in itself.

    People come and go where I work too. When they start breaking the news that they're leaving they always seem apologetic. I always tell them that they must do that which they think is best for them and their family at that time.

    Good luck with the job change. Don't look back.


  6. I think women in general are more willing to work things out, communicate, and generally try to make things better first. They have more nurturing aspects.

    Men get frustrated, and don't know how to communicate their feelings, or good old fashioned male pride forces them to take their ball and go home if they don't get their way.

    As for myself, I was in the same guild for years, until recently when everyone from that guild stopped playing, and I found myself adrift.

  7. I don't know if it's a male/female thing. I definitely leave guilds (and jobs) harder than most. Like Issy said, I wouldn't leave for progression. I left once when the RL was a horrible person, once because the guild atmosphere was bad, which caused my friends to also leave. Ok, I did leave for progression once, but I didn't feel a connection with the guild in the first place.

    I guess part of it is indeed a stability thing. As I like to put it, in my current guild/job, I know who the idiots are and how to manage them. In a new guild/job, I might find even more idiots. That's a way of seeing the glass half-empty, I guess, others would see change as a chance for better things :)

  8. Every guild split that I have seen has always been initiated by a male. I'm not saying that a female wouldn't, but I've not seen a female stir those particular waters before.

    Back at the very end of Vanilla before TBC, it was a young, ambitious, and aggressive male that lead our guild split. And no matter how hard it got during the rebuild after that, I stuck it through, out of a sense of loyalty. That isn't to say that in the worst of times I didn't consider moving on; but when it comes down to it my loyalty won out, and I gritted my teeth and stuck with it. (As a side note, I'm really glad that I did, but my loyalty definately is what pushed me through).

    When I left my alliance guild back in Vanilla, it was after months of being miserable. Months of being shit on and mistreated. Then one night I just snapped and couldn't take it anymore. And you know what? I still cried for a good two hours after I left. I still sat unguilded for a week trying to figure out what I wanted to do. I still felt lost and confused, I had been very loyal to the guild I left, but sometimes even loyalty isn't enough to outweigh the negatives, and there is a time, no matter how loyal, to move on.

    All of that being said, after the guild split, and the rebuild, we made loyalty a focus in our guild over a lot of other things. We go out of our way to do things for our guild and to earn that loyalty. Because when push comes to shove, we want players who want to be part of our guild for what our guild is and what it represents to us.

    Oddly enough, we have a fair number of women in our guild as well! =)

  9. @Ratters: No one can compare with Ratshag's virility!!!

    @Barona: I think you are definitely right on about the need or desire for predictability playing into it.

    @Issy: While there are definitely individual differences, yes I do think that women and men think and act differently within organizations. Maybe this comes from having taken a number of managerial and organizational behavior courses in business school.

    @Tunin: Thanks so much. And I also agree that women and men are wired differently and behave and think differently within their jobs. And oh, another vote for the need for stability! Very interesting.

    @River: Hmmm, great points. Maybe we're not more loyal, but women are just more willing to work things out?

    @Jen: Haha... well I figure there are always idiots wherever you work. So I might as well get paid more to deal with them?

    @Beru: Very interesting the guild splits you've seen have been initiated by guys. Which yes, is biased by the fact that more men play this game so thus increasing the change, but still. And yet us women are still branded by many as the source of guild drama?!?! Really?

    And yes, you're totally right loyalty has its place, but there is a time to move on.

  10. Unfortunately, Beru, I've seen plenty of guild drama started by both genders!

    As for guild loyalty, I think Barona is mostly correct. There may be some genuine male/female differences, but when we really break it down, I think gender has less to do with it than that individual's personality.

    And for Keredria, gogo new job! Bust that glass ceiling out! Many things go into deciding on a new job. I'd stay where I am unless both the money and the sitch were much better because my family deserves the stability, I like my home etc., but if those other factors are a non-issue (and the job itself would be at least as enjoyable if not better), then DEFINITELY go for it. While there's a lot to be said for loyalty, honestly I don't think it should be too great a factor in a job compared to what is good for your self/family. IMHO.

  11. Hmm.
    Yeah, probably not truly gender related, but interesting nonetheless. I'm female and moving on can be difficult for me, even when it seems that it may be in my best interest. In my case, some of it is 'indecisiveness'.

    I like Issy's star sign hypothesis ;)